We didn’t even really want to write a book. But we wanted to write that book—Cynthia Dunlop (Show Your Workflow #2)

Cynthia didn’t just write one book, but already 5, so she clearly knows how to write. So today, I interview Cynthia and ask her all the question how she does it. -> TODO :maybe follow up on book specifically?

I had the pleasure to discuss and analyze the workflow TODO. This is the second interview in the series «Show your Workflow», and TODO

As this series is all about how writers write, ………………..

This episode is filled with insights to get better at writing. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did when talking to Benn.

Origin of Writing

How did you get into writing? What was your first interaction with writing? And how did you end up starting to write online?

My first paid writing gig was as a course notetaker for UCLA, well before the days of Granola, etc.. I got paid to attend a variety of interesting classes (Engineering, Law, Literature, Arts…), write structured notes in real time (with pen and paper!), and hand them off the minute the class ended.

Next, I taught freshman writing for a couple of years at Washington State University. I went there to study literature in graduate school, but I was surprised by how much I enjoyed the writing aspect. I also ended up doing some tech writing coursework as part of that grad program.

After that, I ended up pivoting from literature to tech writing. I went from being in a literature grad program to explaining C/C++ runtime error detection tools in a matter of ~3 weeks. My first job was at a dev tools startup, where I ended up writing articles and books with the developers and founder as well as leading tech writing.

What’s the origin story of your book Writing for Developers with Piotr Sarna?

The idea of the book was to bring our two very different perspectives and sets of experiences together to create a fun guide that would ultimately give us all more – and better – engineering blog posts to read. We really wanted to help reluctant writers get started, and also share tips that would benefit writers of all experience levels.

We had collaborated on a book and blog posts before, and enjoyed chatting about writing as well as critiquing blog posts we came across. Honestly, the idea just popped into my head one morning when I was up super early for an event and my mind was probably wandering more than it should have been. “Oh, we should write a book about writing blog posts. And it should recognize that different types of blog posts should be approached quite differently.” I texted the idea to Sarna, he agreed within the minute, and we started fleshing out an outline.

That was it. We didn’t decide to write a book and then brainstorm ideas. We didn’t even really want to write a book (books are a lot of work, especially on top of full-time jobs). But we wanted to write that book…so we made it happen. It was a pure “weekend project” that sprawled into 4 am starts on my end and some late nights on Sarna’s. We wrote it all within 6 months, all totally async. Much caffeine was consumed in the process.

Ideas & Notes

Generally, how do you come up with ideas for your next blog post? What’s the key medium/idea that carries the whole post?

I have a massive backlog of ideas of things to write, both personally and for my actual job. They’re mostly generated from reading and listening, then stewing on what would be interesting ways to advance the discussions. I’ll usually store a vague challenge, need, or question in the back of my head for a while, then at some point something just clicks.

Sometimes, it’s really clear how it all fits together before I start. But other times, I write more than I need to, take a step back, then whittle it down. After seeing it all written out, I might end up focusing on a theme that I didn’t originally anticipate.

How do you take notes (do you take notes?) (tools, ideas, what to capture?) How does it transform into the storytelling of your article? Do you think about storytelling, or do you “just” write your ideas out?

I’m a pretty plain notetaker (and task tracker, too – we coordinated the entire Writing for Developers book with a simple text TODO list).

For writing, I think the process of notetaking is way more valuable than the actual notes. When I sit down to take notes, that’s a brainstorming phase where I really think through everything potentially related to the topic. It’s often a mix of information that I want to include in what I ultimately write, along with tangential musings, questions, todo items, and so on.

I generally like to start writing without looking at my notes. I get into a better flow that way – this is probably when I naturally focus on storytelling, though I don’t intentionally think about it. When I get stuck or finish a draft, that’s when I go back and check my notes. At that point, I’m mainly looking for things I missed and still want to add. Sometimes I come across points that I really want to include, but don’t fit nicely into the flow. At that point, I think about whether it’s worth working it in, or just saving it for “sometime” (maybe never, realistically).

I feel like thinking through an idea doesn’t “count” unless it’s written down somewhere. I think my brain knows when I can’t write something down, and it messes with me by giving me more/better ideas then (for example, when I’m swimming or paddling).

How do you write, out of these two types of writers: 1. The one that outlines first, and then fills in the information (this is the Architect). 2. The one that has a vague idea of what to write about, maybe a title, and then goes with the flow and sees where it takes him/her (like Stephen King, having fun exploring. This is the Gardener, as Brandon Sanderson describes it on The Tim Ferriss Show).

It depends. :) I’d say with work projects, I’m more likely to outline first. In this case, I feel like I am building something out of various sources, and it often helps me to have some structure. For personal projects, it’s generally the latter. I feel like it’s more a matter of extracting information from my brain, untangling ideas as I go along.

For books – particularly if you’re working with a publisher – you really do need to have a carefully crafted outline, and you need to stick to it. It’s such an important guiding principle that it’s part of the legal contract. If you self-publish, you can get away with so much more…but you really should still have a well-thought out outline if you want to write a book vs a collection of blog posts.

Where do you get your inspiration from?

Mostly reading and careful listening, partly just randomly thinking about things. Something will spur an idea, then I jot it down and let it slow cook in my head until I feel I’m ready to get it out. At that point, I want to transfer it from brain to page ASAP.

Process & Tools

What does your editing process look like? Do you delete everything else that does not fit into the storytelling once the story is clear?

I like to let it sit at least overnight, then give it a fresh read. Sometimes I like to do that early in the morning, pre-coffee. I think that’s a good time to find when transitions don’t connect or ideas could be clearer. But then I also like to give it a careful read when I’m feeling sharper. I’ll notice different things in different passes, depending on where my mind happens to be at.

What tools do you use most? What are your writers’ tools? Do you still use paper? Or do you write on different devices/in different ways?

For notetaking, it depends on where I am when I’m thinking about the topic. If I’m sitting in front of a computer, I’ll usually take notes there, in a Google Doc. If I want to refresh my thinking, I might move to a different location and start taking notes on paper.

If it’s over the weekend, I usually capture my thoughts with pen and paper. This is largely how the Writing for Developers book was created (see image above).

For actual writing, it’s always Google Docs (I like it for review and collaboration) and always on a laptop. I feel…closer to it that way? If I feel like I need to rethink something, I might go to paper for a little bit to shift my brain into different directions. (Or, I might let it sit and do something outside – no writing tools can be the best thinking tool).

Also, I almost always have music on when I write. I consider that an essential writing tool.

How would you describe your writing voice? How and when did you find your writing voice?

I often need to be a chameleon for work, so my voice varies there. For personal writing, I don’t really think about my writing voice. I write what I hear in my head.

It’s ghostwriting where I really obsess over voice. There are a lot of nuances in peoples’ wording as well as their manner of storytelling. I have to try to get into the other person’s voice in my head, which can be challenging. The ultimate goal here is to have the named author adopt it as their own and say something like “You didn’t write what I said, you wrote what I actually meant to say.”

Are there times when you have writer’s block? How do you “force” yourself to write (do you have a schedule, a timeline you give yourself?)

I set arbitrary deadlines for myself. It’s really easy to keep deferring writing and deprioritizing it versus the smaller tasks that are easier to knock off. I find deadlines, even meaningless self-imposed ones, help me avoid that.

I don’t really get writer’s block. I think about topics (and take notes) for a while, then at some point I’m super eager to get it out of my head and make it live on paper. Even if I don’t really feel like writing, there are still a million ways to make some minor progress on the article (build a diagram or play around with titles, for example). I sometimes write sections out of order, and I often just drop TODO in for parts that I don’t feel like writing at the time.

How do you write, at scheduled times a week?

Whenever I get a large enough block of time. For work, that often ends up being Fridays. For personal stuff, it’s usually early in the morning (weekdays more than weekends). I can fit spurts of revision in here and there, but I need to get into the zone for actual authoring.

Last: AI and how to start

How do you use AI as a tool? Grammar? Research? More?

I still structure and author from scratch. Once I’m happy with a draft, I’ll likely turn to an LLM for some critical feedback. Usually, there’s at least a suggestion or two that I find useful. Here are some of the prompts I use.

When I’m close to publishing, I usually enable the free Grammarly proofreading and also ask an LLM to check for egregious typos, missing words, and other mistakes. I like the built in Google Docs spellcheck better than Grammarly while I’m writing because all the Grammarly colors and popups are just too annoying. I’ve played with Hemingway a tiny bit, but I didn’t find it helpful.

For work, I often write articles based on interviews and conference presentations. In these cases, AI is priceless. Back in the dark ages, I used to transcribe such things by hand. With all the starting and stopping, it was a terrible task and I would dread it, every time. Now, it’s transcribed instantly and effortlessly – and it’s actually a lot better at guessing many unclear words than I am. Plus, it’s also comically bad at interpreting a few things, so it’s also a nice source of amusement.

Would you get rid of AI if you could, tomorrow? Or do you say it unlocked so much for you?

AI slop, yes. AI, no. I wouldn’t say that AI “unlocked so much for me” personally as a writer, but I see how it could make a huge difference for someone who is a new and/or reluctant writer. It’s also a pretty sharp – and objective – reviewer.

More broadly, AI is helping the community fast-track all sorts of interesting projects…and that means more cool things to write about. :)

If someone starts writing today, or wants to start today: what approach would you suggest to that person?

Select a topic that you care deeply about (something you are proud of, pained by, or otherwise passionate about) and write it as if you’re sharing a story with a group of friendly colleagues or peers. I think people naturally gravitate to authentic human experiences and perspectives – especially now.

Start writing in your own words and develop your own style. Your writing voice might sound like your written voice, or it might have a somewhat different personality. Capture whatever you’re hearing in your head and share that with readers. Please, please, please, please, please don’t let LLMs homogenize it. Readers want to read your authentic words, not soulless grammar perfection.

And before you publish anything, read it aloud, as dramatically as you can bear. This sounds silly, but it’s the best way to find awkward sentences and ensure that readers can “parse” it in their own heads as they read it.

Extra

How do you do time management: writing a book, blogs, doing interviews on your blog with others, and having a job, and family etc. I’m sure you have great dicipline but maybe also a specific way of doing it

I keep it all written down and try to continuously reprioritize things, even during the course of a single day, based on urgency, dependencies, and impact. When that doesn’t work, I always have a ready supply of chocolate covered espresso beans. I like being busy, especially with things I truly enjoy. ¯\(ツ)/¯ I do try to protect weekends and get out for a beach walk each weekday though. And I will sacrifice sleep rather than skip some morning exercise.

And note taking: just one big google docs with all ideas? no note taking app or multiple?

Lots of folders for structure, lots of different Google Docs per topic. I was big on Evernote quite a while ago, then stopped for some reason I can’t remember now. I like the idea of Obsidian – especially the connections – but not that it stores things locally (IIUC). If I am on my work system and want to jot down a couple personal notes, I don’t want to have to go grab a different system.